Has anyone else had a bad experience with Naylor Racing??
 

Has anyone else had a bad experience with Naylor Racing(Proaction Heads) or scammed by them? I saw their ad #1418969 1000+ hp BBC Engines 565-582-600 CID ALL NEW DART BIG M $10,500.00, so I called & talked with owner, Jimmy Naylor. I asked him if he could build 1100+ hp engine, he replied he could any horsepower engine I wanted, I told him I wanted 1100+ hp engine & he stated he would work up an invoice & email it to me. When I received the invoice WHICH I WILL POST FOR EVERYONE TO SEE IN NEXT POST, I called him & asked him once again about the engine making 1100+ hp, he replied "look on the invoice I would not have quoted you that if I could not deliver". At that time, he told me what the deposit would be, which I gave him. I asked him how long it would take, he replied 5-6 weeks MAX. In the end, it was 14 weeks, before the engine was ready. My experience only got worse from there, I had the engine dynoed & at the very start, it was not getting oil to the rockers, so this was an additional $250.00+ gaskets for repair. Upon pulling the intake, instead of using the correct gasket Naylor used two gaskets and one had slipped leaking water into the lifter galley, another $80.00+ for oil & filter. Next I will post the invoice on which you can see where Naylor put 1100+hp then I will post the dyno sheets where you can see this supposedly 1100+ hp engine only made a best of 947 hp. THAT'S 153 HORSE-POWER less than it was supposed to make.

[img]http://imageshack.us/a/img819/5776/naylorinvoice.jpg
This is the invoice from Naylor with 1100+ hp written on it[/img]

[img]http://imageshack.us/a/img543/508/dynop1.jpg
This is page 1 of dyno sheets[/img]

[img]http://imageshack.us/a/img9/7622/dynop2.jpg
This is the graph from dyno sheet[/img]

It is clear the engine is 153 horsepower short of what was guaranteed to me!
When I found the engine was going to have to have additional work at an additional cost to me, I called Naylor and they would not even talk to me about it. After the engine was dynoed, the dyno operator suggested I contact Naylor and ask them about some form of reimbursement(in other words, they should make things right) I sent them an email and the only reply I received was NO REPLY at all, just like in the phone conversation. People like this make it hard to trust dealing with anyone else online.

I'm not sure what to call this, but IT IS definitely Fraud, Scam, False Advertising or Internet Fraud!!

I am going to report their ad to racingjunk in hopes they will check out the documents and investigate this. I know I did not get what I paid for and I am out my money, but maybe I can stop my fellow racers from falling victim to them.

thanks i will deal with someone else you just saved me a bunch of money

This is a copy of the mssg I was sent from the builder.

I have no dog in this. Just posting what was sent to me. This was sent at almost the same time as I received some info from the buyer about this. I just want to make sure both have their side posted.


J RaceSpace: Mrmopar
Hi racer


I dont think i know you but i will be happy to send you the invoice were he paid $11500.00 for a very nice 632 that should have cost $14000.00 or better. I tried to help him and now i wish i would have left him alone.The 1100 h.p was with cnc heads that he could no afford so i felt sorry for him and was going to do a set of dart 400 m heads that take alot of work and did him a dart tunnel ram to try and get as close to 1000+ h.p for $11500.00 thats all he had to work with. You know that a 632 with 430+ cfm heads with alky and two carbs will make 1030-1050 H.P we could not dyno the engine,he had all mopar parts to go on engine. He could not afford to by bbc parts to run the engine so he took it without dyno.Here again i was going to dyno at N.C , i have been on here and built alot of engines this is the only one that said any thing bad.I should not have to tell people that i am a good engine builder i am well known by dart,comp manley every on the the big companies i do R&D for them yu cant people comment on the good things people say on here. Sorry to bother you with this but you should know my side.


THANK YOU
JIMMY

I'll be giving you a call after first of the year if i still have my car Thanks

First of all, all that anyone needs to do is look at the Naylor invoice where he clearly states 1100+ hp engine in his price for building a 1100+ hp engine. I paid his total price and the only question I had was will it make 1100+ hp, and he told me it should make 1140-1160 hp with the tunnelram on alcohol. If you pay someone to build you a 1100+hp engine should they not make it right. As you can see I have asked and given Jimmy Naylor of Naylor Racing Engines(ProAction Heads) time after time and chance after chance to make it right, and you can see his reply, nothing but excuses. When you buy from a business not an individual, and it is not what you paid for, don't you think they should make it right?

He states I could not afford to buy BBC parts and had to use Mopar parts. In the next post I will post the required Chevy parts that I ordered and paid for from Naylor and by looking at the invoice & parts list for the engine build you can see I bought everything needed from Naylor the total cost added up to over $12,000.00, then when he did not dyno the engine it cost me an additional $500.00 for dyno work, another $250.00 plus $30.00 something for gaskets plus another $80.00 to replace the oil and filter again as when the intake had to be pulled for repairs because the rocker arms were not getting any oil, there was some water in the lifter galley from where Naylor used 2 intake gaskets instead of getting the proper thickness one and one had slipped leaking water. Now if you all would like a good laugh, after 14 weeks when I went to Naylor's to pick up the engine I met Jimmy Naylor for the first time, his eyes were wide as saucers & all spaced out. He pointed at my Terminators in the box and said those Mopar carbs won't fit on this Chevy engine and that Mopar vacuum pump won't bolt up to this Chevy engine or that Mopar Ron's fuel pump.LOL I will post my Mopar parts that were used. I took the 2 #1055(4500 Series) Terminators and linkage with everything remaining in tact that went on the BBC Dart Tunnelram and all I had to do was bolt them to the BBC intake. When we had the engine on the dyno we checked the barrel valve and it did not even need resetting. As for my Aerospace vacuum pump it bolted straight to the BBC head. As for the fuel pump I used the same bracket, may have used different holes, but it bolted right up to the BBC block. The Mopar mandrel as he called it, went right into the crankshaft and the fuel pump & vacuum pump pulleys lined up perfect. I hope this clears up the Mopar parts BS.

After reading all of this if anyone is still thinking about doing business with Naylor Racing, don't make the mistake I made. I also talked with DynaFlow Engine builders on this site and I chose Naylor over them, not to save $1200.00 but because Naylor was close enough I could go pick the engine up when it was finished instead of paying shipping charges.
BEFORE YOU PAY THEM YOUR DEPOSIT, YOU NEED TO MAKE THE TRIP TO NAYLOR'S SHOP AND DECIDE FOR YOURSELF. If I had only made the trip I would not be out my money. When you see the shop and their machinery, you won't want to do business with them!
A 632 cu in BBC should make 1100 hp but if you don't first have the machinery and the know how just bolting the parts together is not going to get you much of an engine.

When the deal was made Jimmy said it would take 5-6 weeks max to finish the engine. Below I will post the first and final paid invoices where you can see it took 14 weeks(3-1/2 months) that was this year's entire racing season!!

I'm going to try to redo this![imghttp://imageshack.us/a/img404/7791/naylorchevyparts.jpg
][/img][imghttp://imageshack.us/a/img819/5776/naylorinvoice.jpg
][/img][imghttp://imageshack.us/a/img845/442/na...alinvoice2.jpg
][/img]

If you look at the above post - BBC parts and either invoice you can clearly see I bought everything from Naylor to complete the BBC engine. Jimmy's statement about the terminators, vacuum pump, fuel pump being Mopar parts that would not fit on the BBC might have been humorous to you all but can you imagine the horror I felt when he made those comments after I had paid him over $12,000.00?!?

You can look at the first invoice & final invoice and see it took 14 weeks instead of 5-6 weeks. After waiting that long it still was not right. As you can see, I have proof of everything I have said. Thanks

P.S. If you look at the above Naylor invoice, with the addition of the Chevy parts, the total comes to $12,439.00. The dyno was to have been included in this, by Naylor not doing this it ended up costing an additional $500.00 for dyno work plus another $350.00 for corrections made due to Naylor's poor workmanship. That brings the total to $13,389.00, hmm, not so good a deal after all is it?
This should make it apparent to everyone that Naylor does not stand behind his work.

So this engine was not dyno'd at Naylors shop ?

As you can see on his ad #1418969 he is guaranteeing these engines & I am sure he will tell anyone like he told me, he will have the engine on the dyno when I come to pick it up. After 12 weeks when I went up there(to see what the hold up was & what was going on - I had only got the run around so far) & Tom had me talk to Naylor's 2 mechanics at 11:30 am when they got there, as usual Jimmy was not there, I asked them if they had a dyno and they said they had one but the brake was messed up on it and they had not dynoed any engines since they had been there. This was on a Friday and I told Tom to have Jimmy call me first thing Monday morning. After he had not called by 1:00 pm I called him and finally got to speak with Jimmy and told him what his mechanics told me about the dyno. He said his mechanics did not know what they were talking about & why was I worried about the dyno anyway, he wasn't dynoing my engine. I told him that was in the agreement and he said it was not anywhere on the invoice & he was not dynoing it. I reminded him that his invoice said 1100+hp & he said the final invoice, when I paid him the rest of the money, would have it on it too.

But to answer your question, NO it was not dynoed at Naylor's, it was dynoed at Frisco City, AL., by one of the best in the Southeast with the newest & latest dyno. It printed out 6 different sheets per pull & at best dyno it only made 947 hp. You can look at the graph and see how the line leveled out & that is how you can tell you got the tune up right and are getting all the available hp out of the engine. Like everything else I have said, this is backed up by documentation.(unlike Naylor, who only has lies & excuses)

I want to make it clear to everyone, I may not be rich but I have the money to put into my race car and like 99.99% of the rest of the racers on here, I have a credit card if it comes to a "must have part". I have a shop I special built for the race car with all the tools & equipment for the upkeep. I have a Dodge Ram 3500 Truck I pull the 40' gn trailer that I haul my race car & equipment in. So I hope this makes it clear, I am not to poor to buy things I need or want! If anyone wants, I will be happy to post pictures of these also.

What it boils down to is, I paid Naylor his asking price to build me a 1100+hp engine & I had to have repairs done to it before dynoed and it only made 947 hp & I feel Naylor should step up & stand behind his work. I tried to work with him but he would not work with me, he ignored me. He says he gave me a good deal, but if you buy an engine from him at his ad #1418969 and it does not make the 1000+hp, would you have gotten a good deal from him?? My upgraded engine has bigger heads & 32 more cu in than the engines in his ads & does not make 1000hp, so you know those engines will not make 1000hp.

Hey Hammertime,
Can I ask you a question? I see where you use APD Race Engines, if you had them build you a 1100 hp engine and it did not make within 153 hp of it, what would APD and/or you do? Thanks

I wouldn't care what it made on a dyno, nor should you, you should care what it runs like on a track... IMO dyno's are for breaking engines in and trying to see gains with changes while on them.

I can tell you for 100% sure, I've seen over 150 difference from one dyno to another. I can also tell you this, its easy to make a dyno read less or more power with a flip of a switch. Another thing to remember, when a different engine shop dyno's a different shops engine, this is usually when you see very low #'s.

I don't want you to take that or this the wrong way, maybe you should be concerned but this is why you have the shop who built the engine also dyno the engine. 99% of engine shops out there are not going to trust anyone other dyno # and I wouldn't either as they are to easy to fool.

There is a very slim chance that engine is only making 950hp. Id like to know what type of car, details (the rest of drive train info, weight, gear, tire, fuel) and what it has ran so far ?

I will have to disagree with you on the dyno. The dyno is a very valuable tool to use with a new engine. It not only helps to break the engine in and make sure there is no mistakes, but it is also very useful to tune the engine to get maximum hp & torque out of it. This information is useful in helping you set your car up. The torque convertor is what can make or kill ET. If you can provide a torque convertor company with copies of your dyno sheets weight of car type of trans rear gear & tire size, just about all of the good companies can build you a good convertor. Your dyno sheets can also help you select the optimum rear gear ratio. Also, if you know the hp & weight of your car you can get a good idea of what the car is supposed ET, if it does not do that you know you are losing available hp somewhere. I know there are gonna be dishonest engine builders who will calibrate their dynos to show 100-150 hp more, but the torque of the engine is what calculates your hp that is why I included the graph. You can compare the torque to the hp and do the math on them and that will tell you if the hp is correct or not.

I guess back in the dinosaur days of dyno there may have been a big variable between one dyno to the other. But now days with the modern dynos if the operators keep them calibrated you find very little hp difference from one to the other & that very little difference will be from the load percentage they set the dyno up to put on the engine. The man that dynoed my engine used to work with Gene Fulton. He just bought a brand new state-of-the-art dyno this year. The people from Stuska Dynamometers had just come back & made sure the calibrations were correct after 100 dyno pulls when he started on mine it had 110 pulls & when he finished, it had 120 pulls. He does all his dyno pulls with an 18% load on the engine, this is more or less the standard that most all engine builders use. This is the percentage load Gene Fulton, Sonny Leonard, Shafiroff, Reher-Morrison all dyno their engines at. The recommended dyno load is 10-20%. That is why I chose the very best person with the very best dyno equipment to dyno the engine, I wanted exact numbers.

You asked about my car, it is a rear engine dragster. It should weigh around 1800 pounds with the BBC engine & myself included. It has an ATI MRT Treemaster Convertor, ATI Glide with 4:29 rear gears, Goodyear 34.5x17-16 rear tires. In the picture I will post for you it had a 572 cu in all aluminum Indy Mopar engine. The dyno sheet from Indy said 958 hp @7200 rpm with 1-4 barrel on gas. I put a Tunnelram with 2 Terminators on alcohol on it, that should have given the engine another 75-80 hp. It run 4.64-4.68 in the eighth mile.
http://imageshack.us/a/img10/1646/mmp10jpg.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img202/9653/mmp01jpg.jpg

Now you can understand why I paid Naylor to build me a 1100+hp engine. My Mopar engine should have been 1000 hp engine with the Tunnelram on alcohol. Instead of having an engine making 100 more hp I have one making about 50 less hp.

At the least the heads are going to have to come back off and I am going to have to pay someone else to preform the work that Naylor should have done. Naylor put a Comp Cams CB 1719B/1291B with a 285 intake 296 exhaust duration .824 intake .785 exhaust camshaft in the engine. I have had several engine builders tell me that is the size camshaft they use in their 555-565 engine and my 632 cu in engine needs a bigger camshaft. The camshaft may not be a big deal if I have enough piston to valve clearance, if not that means the pistons must come out & be notched.

The best I can hope for if the pistons do not require notching is only having to spend another $2,000.00 to get the engine in a power range that I can live with and I think everyone knows what the additional cost will run into if the pistons have to come out.

I have never taken a motor to the dyno because we don't race on a dyno. I have seen the guys come out and tell me what the dyno said they made and I know it was better than what my motor put out. The ET slip said I had the better motor on track. As for dyno variances, yes they are better than the old days but I have seen the big number swing. Each dyno is different and will put out different numbers.

If you are basing your deal off the dyno number alone, the only fair thing to do is for Naylor to agree to step up and run the dyno. If it is sub par as to the agreement, then he should correct it. If it meets or is near the expected number, you have some apologies to make. Pretty simple solution.

That sounds fair to me, we can take the engine back to where I had it dynoed and Jimmy Naylor can add his input & see the results or he & I can both pick some neutral sites & let you the people determine who does the dyno pulls with Jimmy & I both there.

If the engine makes close to the 1100 hp I will be more than happy to apologize to Jimmy & come on here & apologize to everyone else & pay not only for the dyno session but pay Jimmy for his time to come to it. If not Jimmy pays for the dyno session & he pays to have the engine corrected to make the 1100 hp that I paid for in the beginning.

But I think the downside for Naylor no matter what now ... you posted the copy of the bill online after he gave you a good deal, now all his customers want the same deal. What would you do in his shoes ??

Put in the car as is .. race it and see what it goes.

Are you serious?? You are joking right??!!
Do you NOT see I paid Naylor his asking price to build me an 1100+hp engine? Do you NOT see the dyno results - 947 hp that's no where near the 1100+hp?!? Just how many people do you think will want THAT same deal? I asked you on a previous post what do you think APD Racing Engines, the ones posted in your signature, would do if you had them to build you a 1100+ hp engine and it only made 947 hp, would you be happy? Do you think they would step up & make it right or tell you got a good enough deal?

You asked what would I do in his shoes - I'll tell you what I'd do - I would step up & do the right thing, the same thing any other honest business owner would do. I would do whatever it took to make the engine produce 1100+ hp as I promised, or I would talk to my customer & try to reach some form of reimbursement for what I did not deliver.
If Naylor did this, don't you think this would be a better way for his potential customers to see he is a man of his word and reliable to do business with? I can't see where anyone, after seeing all this documentation, would want to do business with a man like him.

dyno
 

Here is my opinion, and how I see this. If the motor was not dynoed at Naylors and in fact it had some potential problems as stated by the buyer, than reguardless of the dyno number, he did not get what he paid for. If the dyno number is important to the buyer and the motor was advertised as producing the HP number advertised, than the builder should back up that claim.
Do HP numbers vary and can they vary from one dyno to another, yep for sure.
Dynos are used as a tool to help break in motor and dynamically check the engine out. They are also a great tool to baseline and get an understanding of the engine power.
Will it give you an ET, nope, will it give you an idea if you should be faster, possibly !!
That all being said, taking all this info at stated as being correct, I think the buyer is being patient and seems to be adressing this properly.
I do feel that Naylor should try and make a little more effort to help this situation out. Even if its just calling the buyer or posting clear honest info.
As we know bad news travels "faster" than good news.
And I can tell you that with out "dyno Results" :)
Take care JMO

I don't have a dog in this fight, but one thing that hasn't been mentioned is the fuel system. I do not do carberated systems and haven't for years. but on any injection engine it doesn't take a dyno to tune, be it stacks, terminators, hat's ot blowers, it's all easier than tripping over a log. You never mentioned if it's alcohol engine or gas engine in your post :?: so i can't compare, i do have a few friends that run gas with b/blks that run 4.50's on gas none are 632's, mostly 572's, i also have friends that run 4.80's with small blks on alcohol @ 1800 lbs. It take 950 HP to run 4.60 @ 1800 lbs, but you never said what you wanted to run. If you had a Mopar alum. at 1800 lbs and it ran 4.64, you just added 100 lbs with the 632 steel blk. Like i said i don't have a dog in this fight, but no one i know has ever had an engine dyno'ed and we tune them our self at the track.
Now i do agree with you if Naylor said it will produse 1100 HP on a dyno, it should be dam close to those #'s, however i've never been in that situation, so i chose to not take sides.

JMO

Zip.

I was joking .... you took it to another shop to dyno it, end of story... Dyno #'s are easily fudged, id have ZERO issues buying a engine from Naylor from what I've seen here ... sorry but I've seen it time and time again ... dyno's can different that much and more, simple as that. Im done with this topic now .. enjoy

I have no dog in this one either like Zip says. Maybe my thinking may be oversimplified due to my lack-of-knowledge about dynos, pricing & building race motors. But......

I do believe that a man should do what he says he is going to do however. If the motor cannot make reasonably close HP as agreed (including +/- dyno variance) why should buyer be satisfied @ 947HP even if the motor cost $1.00??

That said.....

It is really no different than how my company builds bows. Our dyno is a "chronograph" instead. We advertise a speed on each model based on an industry standard ("IBO" 30"/70lbs @ 5grns per lb & +/- 8 FPS). If a bow does not make speed within 8FPS, it is taken apart, tuned, rebuilt etc.... until it does... period. The motor may be a good deal @ the price; but it is not the deal buyer signed up for.

In spite of that......

Disputes arise in everyone's equipment/measuring with chronographs, scales, dynos, etc... but 143HP variance is BIG ... that is 13% less HP than advertised.

My Opinion: If an acceptable dyno variance is say 4 to 5%, then seller should compensate for the lost 8 or 9% agreed HP to buyer for example.

Am I oversimplifying this situation?? Am I missing something?

Did you not read anything??? Did you not get the part where Naylor guaranteed a 1100+hp engine??? Did you not see what Naylor's mechanics told me when I went up there to see what was going on after 12 weeks??? They told me the brake was not working on the dyno & there had not been any engines dynoed since they had been there. When I confronted Jimmy on the phone he said they did not know what they were talking about(his own mechanics that work for him) He also said there was no need for me to worry about the dyno because he was not going to dyno it anyway because he did not include it in the price(invoice) & he was not doing it anyway.

NOW IT SHOULD BE CRYSTAL CLEAR WHY I HAD TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE TO GET THE DYNO DONE!!!

If you are so sure or anyone else that thinks the dyno results I posted will be 150 hp difference at another reputable shop & would like to make a nice bet I'll be happy to take em up on it. We can put the money up & meet at Pro Line Racing Engines in Atlanta, GA or Huntsville Engines in Huntsville, AL. Both of these are well known & their reputation is second to none!

If after all the proof not talk I have posted about Naylor and after you take a trip down & check out Naylor's outdated shop & lack of equipment, if you still wish to buy from him, knowing all this, be my guest!!

Hi Zip,
I run 2 #1055(1475 cfm each) Ron's Terminators. I use the gray combination barrel valve & shutoff valve, I just had Jeremy at Ron's resize my pump up from 1/2 to a #1. The throttle response is unreal & you no longer have any cooling problems. As you know alcohol burns cooler so you can use a step hotter plug and make more power on the dyno after we got a baseline tune we pulled the AR3934 plugs out and put a set of AR3933 and it lost 11 hp on the dyno.

What some people don't understand about my reasons for the dyno is I wanted at least a 1100 hp engine and Naylor said with the Tunnelram on alcohol it would make 1140-1160 hp easy. So after paying a business to build me a 1100+hp engine not just an engine, I wanted to make sure I got what I paid for.

I've had a lot of people teach me how to run alcohol, if I can ever be of any help to you just let me know. Thanks

Some people you just can't PLEASE
 

IF I WOULD HAVE GAVE HIM THE ENGINE HE WOULD HAVE BITCHED. I DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO GET ON HERE DEAL WITH PEOPLE LIKE BILLY LOOK AT HIS PIC AND YOU WILL SEE WHAT YOU GET. I AM POSTING THE 1ST EST THAT I WROTE HIM AND IT HAS 1000-1050 H.P NOT 1100 HE HAD TOM PUT THAT ON HIS INVOICE BEFORE HE LEFT AND I TOLD HIM THAT IT WILL NOT MAKE THAT. THE ENGINE WILL MAKE 1050 H.P I HAVE A DYNO SHEET HERE FROM SOME ONE THAT HAS THE SAME ENGINE WITH ONE CARB SV1 AND IS ON Q-16 AND HE HAD HIS BUDDY DYNO HIS ENGINE NOT ME,IT TOOK ME A WEEK OR SO TO GET THIS FROM HIM.BILLY HAS A 632 WITH 15+ COMP AND MANLEY GAS PORTED PISTONS AND GOOD RING PACKAGE AND TWO RONS AKY WITH DART 415CC M HEADS WITH WORK ON THEM FOR (FREE)!!!! AND A COMP 4-7 SWAP CAM 285-296 318-337 ON A 112 WITH 800+ LIFT DO YOU THINK IT ONLY MADE 950 H.P COME ON WE ARE NOT THAT DUMB (BILLY) HEADS HAD NO WORK FROM DART NO SEAT WORK OR NOTHING!!! INTAKE IN THE PICS WERE DONE FOR (FREE)!!! AND WE DRILLED IT FOR RONS INJECTORS FOR (FREE)!!! IN THE ENGINE WORK BECAUSE I WAS DOING THE HEADS AND OTHER WORK FOR FREE HE SAID HE WAS IN NO RUSH,THIS WAS HIS LAST BUILD. I WOULD HAVE DYNO THIS ENGINE BUT HE HAD ALL MOPAR BRAKETS ,VAC PUMP PULLY,CARB LINKAGE ECT. HE WANTED ME TO TAKE A FULL DAY AND PUT ON FOR FREE WHEN DOES THE FREE STOP!!!! HE NEVER THANKED ME ONE TIME FOR ANY THING JUST BITCHED AND HAD EVER ONE IN THE SHOP NOT WANTING TO WORK ON HIS ENGINE!!! I TRIED TO SELL HIM THE SHORT BLOCK LOOK AT THE INVOICE ON HERE AT A DAM GOOD DEAL TO GET HIM OFF MY BACK, NO HE WANTED THE COMPLETE ENGINE BECAUSE HE SAW THE GREAT DEAL HE WAS GETTING, LOOK ON HERE AND SEE IF ANY ONE WILL BUILD THAT ENGINE FOR THAT PRICE.WELL EVERY ONE THANK BILLY FOR MESSING IT UP FOR ALL THE OHER GOOD RACERS.

Re: Some people you just can't PLEASE
 

(quote)
Hi Zip,
I run 2 #1055(1475 cfm each) Ron's Terminators. I use the gray combination barrel valve & shutoff valve, I just had Jeremy at Ron's resize my pump up from 1/2 to a #1. The throttle response is unreal & you no longer have any cooling problems. As you know alcohol burns cooler so you can use a step hotter plug and make more power on the dyno after we got a baseline tune we pulled the AR3934 plugs out and put a set of AR3933 and it lost 11 hp on the dyno.

What some people don't understand about my reasons for the dyno is I wanted at least a 1100 hp engine and Naylor said with the Tunnelram on alcohol it would make 1140-1160 hp easy. So after paying a business to build me a 1100+hp engine not just an engine, I wanted to make sure I got what I paid for.

I've had a lot of people teach me how to run alcohol, if I can ever be of any help to you just let me know. Thanks

I've been running alcohol since the early 80's in everything from blown 540's to blown sm/blks'
I also run a rons injection on my 377" motor right now, you definately did the right thing by changing the pump to a -1, although i don't run Ron's pumps, i use DSR or Enderle pumps. I run a -1 on anything larger than 400 cu in and on the blower motors i use an Enderle 110 or 990 At this time i have 4 fuel pumps in my shop.
My first blower motor was running in 1964 a blown sm/blk on gas (the only one on gas that i've ever ran) and i've ran everything from Top Alcohol funny car on down, but no dragsters at all. I'm a big fan of stacks injection, but as i said they are all easy to tune, yes the plugs play a big factor in alcohol, mostly i run NGK, but i also use autolite plugs in the range you mentioned.
The terminators are a good choice, next and maybe better IMO is stacks
You want to buy a nice set of polished 3" Kinsler stacks for that engine already setup for alcohol.

Just kiddin they are not for sale, i've been thinking about building a 565 or 572 BB for my very heavy Malibu.

Zip.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...2/100_0934.jpg

Re: Some people you just can't PLEASE
 

Again nothing but lies from Jimmy Naylor. Everyone can look at the first & final invoice and see where he stated 1100+hp. Jimmy, you damn liar, anyone can look at the first invoice-which you yourself sent & final invoice and see that they are both original. Again by documentation I have proved you LIED.
Again he is talking about the Mopar parts, as I stated in an earlier post I bought everything from that scammer & liar. You can see the additional parts list. The Terminators only had to be bolted to the intake, as the vacuum pump and fuel pump...a 4500 series carb is just that, they bolt to 4500 series intakes, now I don't know where the hell he came up with Mopar carbs when they are nothing more than just simple carbs. Just more lies & excuses from Jimmy.
I called Naylor's when we found the engine was not oiling to the rocker arms and where the 2 intake gaskets they used instead of using a proper thickness gasket, one had slipped and water was leaking into the lifter galley. POOR WORKMANSHIP FROM NAYLOR'S.
I was sure he would not only want to know of the mistake made but would be happy to reimburse me for the additional work to correct their mistakes. He only asked what do you want me to do about it, I told him I thought he should pay for the repairs and he said I ain't paying for nothing.
As everyone can see I have been more than patient, I have provided all this information posted on here. He would not answer the phone & talk, or return any emails.
Is this the way a business is supposed to be run? You tell a man what you want built and you pay him his asking price and when you get it, it is not what you paid for. I would expect and think any honest businessman, when he delivered something to a customer and it was not right the first thing they would be interested in would be making it right.
As a matter of fact, another businessman who posted on an above post stated that if the product was not within the standards, the product did not leave their shop until it met the standard. Should that not be the way all businesses are run?
Am I missing something? Is Naylor offering to make his work right or anything? All I'm seeing from him is excuses and lie after lie.
Jimmy Naylor is doing nothing but running a scam and taking advantage of racers.

Jimmy Naylor - why don't you post a picture of your shop - inside & outside, show everyone what you have/don't have!! Have you even put up a sign yet?? You are a disgrace to all the honest engine builders & racers on this site because of you we can not trust anyone!

If all this info with documentation to back it up is not enough to deter people from doing business with Naylor(Pro Action Heads) Racing, before you send him a deposit(he will ask for half and will not refund it) go to his shop(if you can find it) and take a tour - you'll understand what I'm telling you.

This is all that really needs saying. Jimmy Naylor as you & everyone else can see the engine I paid you the money to build is not right.
ARE YOU GONNA STEP UP AND AT LEAST TRY TO MAKE THINGS RIGHT OR CONTINUE TO TELL LIES & MAKE EXCUSES?

Sounds like Naylor did a lot of work at no cost? Is that correct?

Sounds like the original agreement was no hurry to have it done? Is that correct?

Was there a dyno session that was to be done at Naylor's?

Your first question - go back and look at the invoice I posted, that was the price for a COMPLETE engine. Do you see any proof from Naylor where he did any free work?

Your second question - Do you really think any racer with money in hand during racing season would not want their engine done in a timely agreed upon time frame. I posted the invoices where you can see the promise 5-6 weeks max ended up being 14 weeks, til after 6 weeks completion time I did not pressure or question them in fact if was 8 weeks before I questioned them about the engine being finished. I have documentation.
Did you not read where after 12 weeks of calling & getting the run around I went up to Naylor Racing Engines shop & true to Tom & the mechanics word Jimmy was not there, he was not there very much of the time, this was said by his own employees.
Jimmy was supposed to call me Monday morning after waiting til about 3:00 pm I called & spoke with Jimmy, NOW MAKE SURE YOU READ THIS, I TOLD JIMMY THE ENGINE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE DONE AFTER 5-6 WEEKS & IT HAD NOW BEEN 12 WEEKS(3 MONTHS) TWICE AS LONG AS THE PROMISED COMPLETION DATE. HE SAID IT IS NOT IN WRITING ANYWHERE ON THE INVOICE HE HAD BEEN THROUGH THIS WITH OTHER PEOPLE AND HIS FATHER WAS A MILITARY LAWYER & HE KNEW HE COULD TAKE AS LONG AS HE WANTED & THERE WAS NOTHING ANYONE COULD DO.(PAY ATTENTION TO THE NEXT SENTENCE) AS I HAD SAID BEFORE I HAD ACCIDENTALLY TAPED THIS CONVERSATION THE NEXT MORNING I TOOK IT TO THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. AFTER LISTENING TO THE TAPE(WHICH THE POLICE DEPT. STILL HAS A COPY OF AS WELL AS I) HE SAID I COULD PRESS CHARGES AND HAVE HIM ARRESTED AND IT WOULD TAKE ABOUT 6 MONTHS BEFORE HIS TRIAL AND IF HE RECEIVED JAIL TIME THERE WAS A GOOD CHANCE MY ENGINE WOULD STILL NOT BE COMPLETED OR HE COULD HAVE THE DETECTIVE CALL NAYLOR & IF THEY WERE NOT WILLING TO MEET A DELIVERY COMPLETION THEN PRESS CHARGES. THE DETECTIVE WENT BACK INTO HIS OFFICE SO THEIR CONVERSATION COULD BE TAPED & WHEN HE CAME BACK HE SAID NAYLOR PROMISED THEY WOULD HAVE THE ENGINE READY FOR PICK UP IN 2 WEEKS. I ASKED HIM IF HE WAS SURE HE SAID CALL THEM YOURSELF & SEE WHAT THEY TELL YOU I MADE THE CALL & SPOKE WITH TOM & HE TOLD ME THE ENGINE WOULD BE COMPLETE IN 2 WEEKS.
WHAT I HAVE SAID IS DOCUMENTED & WHAT JIMMY NAYLOR SAYS IS BS LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE HE HAS SAID.
DOES THIS NOT CLEAR UP THE DELIVERY TIME - IT WAS AGREED UPON IN THE VERY BEGINNING FOR A 5-6 WEEK MAX TURN AROUND IN OTHER WORDS HELL NO NOT AT NO TIME NOT EVER DID I TELL JIMMY NAYLOR OR ANYONE OF HIS EMPLOYEES I WAS NOT IN ANY RUSH, TO TAKE THEIR TIME, JUST THE OPPOSITE!!

As for the third question - go back & re-read the posts, that will answer your question.

As you can see on my last post, I asked Jimmy Naylor to cease all the BS, lies & excuses and step up & make things right.

Shouldn't that be the next question? Why are there no answers coming from Jimmy Naylor?

I can't see your invoices here at work due to the site that they are hosted on. All I see are red X's.

I am asking a few simple questions, I don't need the rant. Everyone is pretty clear about the invoice you mention in every post that turns out to be a short novel. Can you just answer the questions without explanaitions? Better yet, take time to read your own posts. People have been trying to help you out but all you want to do is answer questions with rants and bitch to them instead of giving clear, simple answers. Step back, stop the rants and the finger pointing in every damn post and give clear, simple answers to questions people have asked.

I appreciate any & all help I thought I was not only answering your questions but providing the proof to back it up.

Sorry I did not get it right the 1st time, will try again:

Question 1 - NO
Question 2 - NO
Question 3 - YES

Hope this is more to your satisfaction. Thanks

Now that is pretty simple facts.

Can Naylor show that he did additional work that the customer was not charged for? Can they show that there was not a time period in which the motor was to be completed by? Can they explain why the dyno session was not completed?


Has all the necessary work been done to repair what was wrong when your dyno guy tore it down? Did you take pics of the problems?

Shawn is right. Your upset. Worse, you believe that you have been taken advantage of & your patience is running thin. Take a moment to look at this situation from the forum users who are following the 3+ pages of detailed events & info.

That said: I waited a long time before I posted for a reason. I have seen your invoices, correspondence/documentation, etc... & watched Naylor/proactions responses. I am not real impressed. It is buisness... just saying that "he would bitch if we gave it to him for free" is not addressing the issue.

What are the issues??? Corrections to fix/agreement???? If they are saying Billy is SOL...??? be a man & say we are standing behind everything & we are done.

Bring everyone back to the main issues, here is what I see... I could have missed a few things... I am not sure.

1. Int. gasket leaked; rocker/lube not correct & water leaking. True/false? Should this be corrected/compensated?

2. Stated/agreed build to be "1100" or "1050" what is it??... motor made 947HP on dyno. True/false?
Should this be corrected/compensated?

3. Motor took double+ the agreed time to make. (even though this is common with race motors)... what is fair??? Here is what was said about that: "JUST BITCHED AND HAD EVER ONE IN THE SHOP NOT WANTING TO WORK ON HIS ENGINE!!!"

4. HERE IS MY QUESTION: If a guy gets a "great deal" or any "free work" does that mean that he should wait double the time, be responsible for workmanship errors, or tolerate less performance???? If so, I WOULD RATHER PAY THE EXTRA 3 GRAND!!!!!! Jeeez... it is a race engine... there are some serious expectations... we are passionate about our rides.

YES gaskets & labor $348.76 have receipt

No I did not think about taking pictures.

1. True corrected cost was $348.76 I think I should be reimbursed.

2. The agreed build was for 1100+hp on June 28, 2012; TRUE on the dyno the engine made 947 hp have dyno sheets posted; I think I should be compensated for the lack of 153 hp or the necessary work done to engine to bring it to the agreed 1100+hp

3. BITCHED - NO - asked in a professional manor when engine would be finished.

4. NO FREE WORK

Now I think it is Jimmy's turn to reply.

Not to get away from Scotter's questions, but here on my thoughts.
First it was a bad mistake taking the engine without being dynoed. I've had it takes 6 months to build a motor that was suppose to be 10-12 weeks tops. Yea, it's crappy, but it happens all the time buy builders.

The minute you take it away it's yours "as is". It's a racing motor no way would I warranty it either. IF it had been started at builders shop I'm sure he would have fixed it and or any other issues.
As for the dyno results. I've seen first pulls 150+hp less than final tune. I've seen different hp results with same motor on different dynos on the same day so I don't put much into the dyno results in this case.
I would have made it clear up front that my motor be run on the dyno!! A new build should always be run if for nothing else to get a base tune and make sure there are no problems. I'v seen all kinds of stuff go wrong on the dyno including burnt pushrods, broken lifters, etc.

By looking at parts used ( heads, wet sump, etc) I seriously doubt that combination could make 1,100hp. If so It would be a MAX effort build, This was not. I would have questioned that in the beginning.

If I were the builder I seriously doubt I would pay for repairs that another shop did such as the intake gasket. IF I HAD NO DOUBT THERE COULD HAVE BEEN A PROBLEM is the only way I would consider it. Again dyno at his shop would have found this.


It's my personal experience that you get more out of people by being patient with them. Even when I get pissed I wait until I have my motor before I vent on them. Nothing wrong with pushing a little, but to much and this is what you end up with.

Here we sit with a customer that feels he got shorted and mislead on a motor and the builder already feels that he has gone above and beyond what customer paid for and agreed too.

I really can't say unless I was there and heard the conversation or was able to sit with both and discuss it with them.

I would have NEVER taken it before it was dynoed!!

That's my personal feelings and doesn't mean a hill of beans so don't take it personal.


** I don't dyno my current motor every time we freshen it, but I have been with my builder for a long time. He travels with me and is one of my sponsors. He has a lot of interest and involvement in my truck***