TIMING ? AGAIN
 

MY DIST.IS LOCKED OUT TIMING IS AT 34*,YESTERDAY I ADVANCED IT TO 36* AND NOW IT HAS A MISS FROM ABOUT 3000 ON UP WHILE REVING IT IN PARK,MOVED IT BACK TO 34* AND IT SEEMS TO BE FINE.
WITH TIMING AT 34* WHERE WOULD THE ROTOR BUTTON BE POINTING WHEN #1 PISTON WAS AT TDC AND TIMING MARK AT 0.

Re: TIMING ? AGAIN
 

Is this a trick question?

It'd be pointing 34 degrees before the #1 plug in the cap.

Re: TIMING ? AGAIN
 

DUMB QUESTION I KNOW.\
I CANT GET NO MORE THAN 34* TIMING .IF I LOCK IT DOWN AT 36 IT RUNS ROUGH WHEN I REV IT.IF MY DIST WAS IN 180* OUT WOULD THIS CAUSE THE PROBLEM?

I dont think you would even have a smooth idle if your dist was 180* out. I had a dist 180* out and had a very rough idle. But that was also on a Jeep Wrangler not a race car so I could be wrong too. JMO

are you running crank triger ? if so there is more to it that turning dist.

I have never seen one get to 3000 rpm, that was 180 out.

NO CRANK TRIGGER.
34* IT HAS JUST ALITTLE MISS.UNDER NO LOAD.
36* IT RUNS ROUGH FROM 3000 THRU 5000.UNDER NO LOAD.
I GUESS WHAT IM ASKING IS COULD I HAVE BEEN OF A TOOTH OR SO OFF WHEN I PUT THE DIST.BACK IN AFTER I LOCKED IT OUT?I PUT IT BACK WHERE IT WAS OR I THOUGHT I DID.I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE IT OUT AND REINSTALL IT.TO DO SO WOULD I GET NUMBER 1 TO TDC(0) AND THE MOVE THE BALANCER TO 34* THEN DROP THE DIST BACK IN MAKING SURE THE ROTOR IS POINTING TO THE NUMBER ONE PISTON.

It doesn't matter where it's pointing, so long as you can get the cap orientated where #1 is #1.

Standard, as I was taught, is to try and point the rotor at #1 when it's on #1.

In reality, the thing can be pointing at #5, so long as #1 is in the #5 position on the cap.

Know what I'm saying???

You've also not given us enough information on the motor. Alky/gas? Compression? Spark Plug Gap? N/A? Nitrous? Blower/Turbo? What ignition system? Mechanical Advance? Vacuum advance?

GAS MOTOR,11.5 COMP,45 GAP,NO POWER ADDERS,MSD 85551 DIST.MSD BLASTER SS COIL,MSD 6AL2 BOX,DIST.IS LOCKED OUT.

is the blancer on the money,if it is a two peice it can slide,just a thought.

or a valve to tight?

Whats the inside of the cap look like? Is there any carbon tracing inside? Carbon tracing will look like someone took a lead pencil to the cap.

Whats the rotor look like? Is the tip eaten away at all? What about the posts on the inside of the cap? Do they have any grooves in them? Is the spring on the rotor making good contact with the center post on the cap?

It sounds to me like spark is either being cross fired from carbon tracking, or it's not jumping the gap at all due to weak spark.

So, it could be...

Weak Coil
6AL box is firing
Carbon inside the cap
Rotor to cap connection isn't sufficient.

Just speculation though.

I have mine locked out and I never have to touch the timing once the distributor is in, although I do check it with a light. I put the balancer at exactly 38 deg btdc and put the distributor in with the rotor pointed exactly at the #! plug post...If I need to I turn the oil pump with a screwdriver. It has always been on the money when I start it and put a light on it. This only works with the advance locked out.

i think your timings off from what you think it is or theres another issue

I'd re-gap the plugs to no wider than .032 and try again.
JMO>Cp

I THOUGHT OF THAT,BUT MSD SAID 45 TO 50,WHAT WOULD BE THE REASON OF A SMALLER GAP?

I HAVE NEVER THOUGHT OF CHECKING THE CAP AND ROTOR.IT HAS BEEN ON THERE FOR 2 YEARS NOW.

1 PIECE ATI BALANCER

A few more ideas if the cap & rotor check out: rotor phasing way off or if you have a bronze dist gear, it may be worn out.........

High cylinder pressure can "blow out" the spark if the gap is too large....maybe a poor way of wording it.

GEAR IS NEW, BUT I CHECKED IT WHEN I HAD THE DIST. OUT AND IT LOOKED GOOD.IM GOING TO RACE IT TONIGHT AFTER I INSTALL NEW PLUGS AND CAP&ROTOR.

WHAT CAUSES HIGH CYLINDER PRESSURE?

Jeff,Did you set your timing pointer to your damper using a piston stop? Bill.

I did not build the engine,thats something else i read about to see if the timing mark is in the correct spot..how can i do that now that the enginge is together,is there a piston stop that can be inserted in a plug hole.

Not that I know of But I made one by cutting the guts out of a spark plug & welding a piece of steel in that protruded into the cylinder area thereby not allowing the engine to rotate past the bit sticking in. Obviously you will need to be able to turn the engine over gently so as not to bend it.

Yes someone makes a stop that goes in the plug hole.Remove all the spark plugs and it will be easyer to feel the piston hit the stop.Bill.

& if the engine has any sort of big valve springs I would also back them off also

Higher compression, Nitrous, turbo, blower, cam timing....whatever. That's the whole point. The more air you can pump through the engine the more power it will make..think of an engine as a big air compressor. An engine with 12 to 1 compression has 12 times the amount of air in the cylinder at BDC as it does at TDC..The more air you get into the cylinder on the intake stroke the more cylinder pressure you will have when it's compressed, therefore more power on the power stroke. Again, maybe poor wording because valve timing effects the cylinder pressure too but that's pretty much how I think of it.

Ok what are things you can do to achieve higher compression ratio??

TIMING?AGAIN
 

You can use a threaded positive stop in the spark plug hole to find true TDC. BUT BEFORE YOU USE IT, take the rockers off that cylinder or you can bend the valves.
If your balancer is marked in degrees before TDC, screw the positive stop in to stop at 30 degrees. Then measure carefully the distance from zero to 30 degrees and put a mark on the other side of zero at that measurement. Rotate the engine backward slowly till it is against the the positive stop again. If it stops at 30 degrees, your timing pointer is correct. If not, move the pointer until it is equal degrees on both sides of the positive stop.
If you only have a zero mark on your pointer, just pick any measurement around 1 inch and put that on both sides of your zero mark and move your pointer until the measurement is equal on both sides of mark.
Morroso, Manley, MR Gasket, Comp Cams and others make an aluminum threaded positive stop.

WHEN THE #1 PISTON WAS AT TDC THE ROTOR IS POINTING AT THE NUMBER 6 CYLINDER AND THE #1 PLUG WIRE IS IN THAT AREA ON THE CAP SHOULD I PUT MY TIMING LIGHT ON THAT WIRE?OR SHOULD I TAKE THE DIST.OUT AND HAVE THE ROTOR POINTING AT NUMBER ONE.BOY AM I CONFUSED!

As I believe I told you before, it does not matter where the rotor is pointing, so long as when the motor is at TDC on #1 that the rotor is pointing at the #1 plug wire.

I KNOW IT SHOULD BE BUT IT IS NOT,WHEN #1 IS AT TDC THE ROTOR IS POINTING AT THE #6 CYLINDER RIGHT NOW AS I TYPE THIS.I THINK THE GUY THAT BUILT THE MOTOR PUT THE DIST.IN AND MADE WHAT EVER CYLINDER THE ROTOR WAS POINTING AT #1 IS THIS POSSIBLE?

Again, as I said before, twice now. Are you reading what I'm typing?

It DOES NOT matter where the rotor points, so long as when the motor is on #1 TDC that the rotor is pointing at #1 in the cap.

If the motor is on #1 TDC and the rotor is pointing at the #6 plug wire in the cap, then yes, it's wrong.

Jeff when he says #1 on the cap that is wherever the #1 plug wire is on the cap. Doesn't matter which place on the cap you put the #1 wire as long as the rotor is pointing at it at TDC.

You might have someone give you a call and talk you through it on the phone, could be easier than reading it.

Curtis

NOW,WHEN I GET THE MOTOR TO TDC ON #1 I SHOULD ROTATE THE BALANCER TO THE TIMING I WANT WHICH AT FIRST WILL BE 34*BTDC.AND THEN INSTALL THE DIST.SINCE IT IS LOCKED OUT.

NOW THAT I HAVE CALMED DOWN I CAN SAY THE THE ROTOR IS POINTING AT THE #1 PLUG WIRE ON THE CAP,NOW THEN WHEN I ADD TIMING THE MOTOR RUNS ROUGH WHEN REVING IT WITH NO LOAD ON IT,36*TIMING.COULD THIS BE IGNITION RELATED OR SOMETHING ELSE?SBC MSD 6AL 2,85551 DIST.BLASTER SS COIL.

JUST A THOUGHT AM I UNDER CARBED?
406 CID CHEVY
11.5 COMP.
260/264@50
688/678 LIFT SOLID ROLLER
AFR210 ELIMINATOR HEADS 64CC 2.08/1.60, COMP.PORTED.
SUPER VICTOR INTAKE PORT MATCHED
HOLLEY HP WORKED TO FLOW 840 CFM
MSD 6AL 2
MSD 85551 DIST.
MSD BLASTER SS COIL.

No, you're not under carbed.

Can you make a video and upload it? What you call rough and what I call rough may be two different things.

Some carbs run rough at part throttle. I know you said it was a gas motor, so it's not the typical alky roughness at part throttle. You didn't say, however, whether the motor has power valves in it, or if the power valves are plugged off. If there are no power valves, it will run rough at part throttle.

If, however, you can back off the motor 2 degrees, and the 'roughness' goes away, then you may want to try closing up plug gaps to like .018 (just to try it), then up the timing.

If the roughness still occurs, it's time to start changing out electronic parts until you find the culprit.

It could be:

1. cap, rotor, or both.
2. Old plug wires? Have you checked the resistance in each plug wire with an ohm meter?
3. Coil going bad
4. Points in the dist? If points, have you checked the point gap?
5. 6AL box going bad.
6. Excessive plug gap
7. Bad ground... The coil should be grounded to the battery and heads (both heads) via dedicated leads.

Those are all things off the top of my head that can cause 'roughness' due to ignition issues. This is assuming that there's nothing wrong with the carb.

A simpler thing to try would be changing the carb out...

IT IDLES FINE IT MISSES FROM ABOUT 3000 RPM ON UP NO I HAVE NO WAY OF UPLOADING A VIDEO.NEW CAP&ROTOR,NEWPLUGS,NEW PLUG WIRES,NEW MSD 6AL2,BLASTER SS COIL IS A YEAR OLD,GAP IS AT 35.COIL SHOULD BE GROUNDED THE BLASTER SS NEEDS TO BE GROUNED?I JUST HAVE THE BLACK AND ORANGE WIRE FROM THE IGN.BOX HOOKED TO IT.I PUT MY OLD 750 ON IT AND IT STILL HAD THE MISS.
ALSO I WANT TO THANK EVERYONE FOR THEIR TIME AND HELP.MY CAPS LOCK BUTTON IS BROKE ON MY KEYBOARD THAT IS WHY IM TYPING IN CAP'S.

just a thought, is the coil mounted close to anything where spark jump, could be an issue?