I don't have any 40 nozzles. I have 39's and ran them on the dyno with a 82 main pill. It made about the same HP and torque as the 41 nozzles with the 88 main pill.
I will change to that configuration next Sunday.

I just talked to Moroso, and they too are puzzled that the header evac system seems to work better than the vacuum pump. He also didn't think that the catch can being in the airflow was contributing to the oil spray. I just thought that maybe with the high speed air rushing through the filter, there would be a venturi effect.
When the engine was on the dyno, the vacuum pump only spit out a couple of tablespoons of oil in 23 hits. That sounds more like what you get from yours.
I did get much better RPM with the header evac system than I did with the vacuum pump hooked up.

?
 

BUT,What about that 220*Temp @ the Stripe,...........?>?
With ALL the Fuel you Throwing @ the Motor,where did that Temp come From?Are you Certain,theres NOT Serious Pressure in the Cooling System,......?//?
Later
G :?

You're building a bunch of heat going down the track, it goes faster with a smaller pill in the main. Maybe just maybe it's a bit on the lean side.

Re: ?
 

still wondering the same ?

Only way he needs this much fuel is, there is a vacuum leak, barrel valve is screwed up and not getting full fuel, or the pump is weak.

Re: ?
 

I'm thinking the higher temp was due to perhaps over-leaning in the staging lanes and before the burnout box. I wasn't running the water pump or the fan on that run.

I had the Enderle 0-1/2 pump flow tested. It was 5.5 GPM. And the car did pick up between run #2 and run #3 when I changed the pill and put a little more fuel to the engine.

Could my oil spray be because, on decelleration at the stripe, the oil in the top of the head rushes forward to the vacuum pump pick up? Has anyone else encounter this?

I am gonna tear the vac pump down, clean it and check it out. Then hook the vacuum pump inlet hose into the #8 AN breather outlets on the valve covers I use for the header evac system. I will change to the 39 nozzles and an 80 pill and see what happens with the temp and the ET.

Re: ?
 

That explains the warm temps, but you always must run the water pump. Dont want hot spots.

The decelleration should be stopped with the moroso fitting in the valve cover as long as its not just some 12an fitting weleded to the valve cover, but I am sure you went through this and have the right fitting. You know the dirt track guys have a guard on the front of there breather canisters to stop dirt from coming it, possibly you could get a guard like this to stop air. Or stefs breathers suck air from the bottom and is incased.

Did you get a chance to drain the oil sense you've been home and be sure there is the right amount of qts of oil there ?

Re: ?
 

I have the correct Moroso fitting. It's the one they recommend with the hree small holes in it. I think that tying the vacuum inlet into the breather caps should stop the blowing oil.
I haven't had a chance to change the oil yet. I will do that on Friday.

what engine temp are you entering the burnout box? staging temp? temp at the stripe? why so hot?

On a normal run, I go into the box about 140 - 150 and am usually 180 - 190 at the stripe. The problem on that run was that I didn't turn on the water pump and fan like I usually do in the staging lanes.
It was a mistake I made because my mind was on the vacuum issue. Just a bit inattentive!

ok, 190 sounds a little hot yet...keep giving it more fuel if it mph's better :wink:

Go into the box at 160 with water pump on and at the trailer at 175. Get me some pics of the suction side of the pump to the cell,when your getting the others. There is a reason it wants all the fuel and its not because it makes power to use it all. Additional fuel may cause more issues internally, this stuffs simple and your combo isn't unlike 100s of other's just like it that require less fuel and run faster. A fuel restriction or sucking air on the suction could cause it to want more then needed.

Your nozzels, do you have brass filters or foam style? And do you have the o-ring on bottom or top of filter?

Dave is correct. There is way too much fuel going into this motor. There is no way the motor is burning what you are putting thru it. This is going to cause issues in the cylinders and start filing the pan with alky. I am curious what comes out when you drain the oil. You need to be able to hit the water at 160-170 degrees and gain about 10 degrees going down track, no more than the 15 Dave mentioned by the time you hit the trailer.

I'll get some pics when I get home on Friday and post them.
I have the foam type filters on the injector nozzles.

When I topped off the tank after the last run, it took 2 gallons. That's about what the engine brurned in the staging lanes, during the run and back to the trailer. That's about what I was burning per run with my 565 engine with a carb.

I changed the oil at the track after the first run on Sunday. There was no methanol in the oil. It was clean with no milking.

Are you running a filter between the pump and the barrel valve?

Who flowed the pump? Did you only get one flow number?

Which vacuum pump are you running? I've run a 3 vane enhanced on a 632 without issue.

How many runs did you have on it before changing the oil? Put a solid weekend on it where you get several heat cycles on the motor. 2 gallons is a little much. When we ran injection even with a fat tune up it was just over a gallon no more than 1.5 gallons max. On the carb it is right at a gallon per run.

Great look forward to seeing them.

On the foam type filters, do you have it from bottom upward... filter,oring, cover ? Just something I've heard of people doing and it messing up things pretty good.

I use 1 1/4 gallon of alky a run. Check the amount of oil, if its real warm sometimes you can not see a lot of alky in oil. A lot of fuel could account for the internal pressure issues.

I tore the vac pump apart last night and it was full of oil. What a freaking mess! The vanes would hardly move in their slots. I cleaned the system completely with brake clean and everything is free and working.
I changed the vac pump suction from the front of the valve cover to the breather on the top, hoping this will help stop the oil problem.

I viewed video of the three runs I made last week and the oil spray looked like it was happening after the stripe when I started to slow down.

I am going to start tomorrow with 39 nozzles and 82 main pill and see what happens. I am tired of cleaning oil off of everything!

Updates?

Sorry I am a little late with updates.

2 runs Sunday at 90 degrees F and 6000' DA.

Run #1
Nozzles: 39
Pill: 90

Left on the foot brake so ET was not great. 8.43

Sprayed oil out of vacuum pump breather again.
Changed oil after run. Very milky. Far worse than with the 41 nozzles and 88 pill.

Run #2
Nozzles: 39
Pill: 95

Car ran 8.20

Sprayed oil out of vacuum pump breather again.

Drained breather - oil was still very milky. I had to cut the top off of a water bottle to drain the breather. The knife was very sharp. I did contemplate cutting my wrists! LOL

One more race weekend coming up Sept 2 - 4.
I am thinking of putting on a crab and switching to gas for that weekend and see if there are any issues with oil spray.

I don't know how much leaner I should go on the methanol.

I would go no leaner, there has to be air sucking or a restriction, did you have your data logger hooked up ?

I had it hooked up but I haven't had a chance to view the data yet. Damn work gets in the way. I don't monitor the crankcase pressure with the data logger though. Just RPM, DS RPM, fuel pressure, G forces and voltage.
The dash fuel pressure gauge during the run went to 70 psi, which I think should be ok.
I can't help but think there is an internal problem with this engine. Valve timing, head gasket, intake gasket, cylinder wall damage, piston or ring damage. It is building way too much crankcase pressure.

Have you done a compression check on it ?

Its surely not normal, and even worse you have a vacuum pump.

?
 

You OBVIOUSLY have a Leak~Down Tester,.........?USE it,On the MOTOR!!!!!
Later
G 8)

Gonna do a compression test and a cold and hot leakdown test on Friday. I talked to my engine builder and he can't figure it out either. He has been building high HP drag race engines for a long time and he said the only time he has problems is with alcohol engines.
If the compression and leakdown tests indicate the motor is in good shape, I will put on a carb and regulator and run race gas on the long weekend.

I have a question.
What would an engine builder do differently if he was building an engine for alcohol as opposed to building and engine for race gas?
Couldn't you run either fuel in the same engine? I mean, the configuration may not be optimum for both fuels, but I would think the engine would run reasonably on either one. Am I correct?

Here are the pics of the oil after the second run last Sunday. It was changed before the run.
This was with 39 nozzles and 95 pill.

http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/b...n/Milky%20oil/

A good engine builder changes which cam he runs on alky and gas. But you can run gas either way, sometimes a alky engine will cause a pop/miss and require a cam change.

WOW ... thats horrible, as I thought its way rich and that oil proves it

I'm thinking you'll find a problem with either way to much cranking compression or a major leak down when hot.

I agree David. There is alcohol getting into the oil. But with 39 nozzles and 95 pill, I am thinking it's not the injection system that is the problem. I am going to check to make sure all 8 cylinders are firing and that one isn't dead and just loading up with raw fuel.
The milking of the oil is a concern but what really puzzles me is the high crankcase pressure. 24 psi seems excessive to me. If there was raw fuel dumping into the oil pan and flashing off in the hot oil, it may explain the crankcase pressure. What do you guys think?

That's what I meant. You are not buring off the amount of fuel that was going thru that motor. It has to go someplace and into the pan is the only place to go. It will increase the crank pressure and explain why it is pushing to get out thru the catch can. On the plus side, your oil pan and intake must be sealed very well if it is not trying to push oil out in those 2 places.

On the cam selection, an alky motor will always want to have more exhaust duration to run as efficient as a gas motor.

x2 on what Shawn said, the fuel has to go somewhere, but its still not explaining why it slows down when you take fuel away, it should pickup.
I actually think it'll be faster on gas right now

With a normal engine there should be only one way unburned fuel can get into the crankcase. It has to go past the rings / pistons / cylinder walls.
Unless there is a crack in the block which allows cylinder pressure to get into the crankcase.
Do you guys agree?

Looking at the build sheet, the 1 thing that's missing is the piston to wall clearance, i'm a little curious as to why that was left off. If there's excessive clearance and as short as the piston skirts are you will have piston rock and even gapless rings will not seal properly. the other question that hasn't been ask, do you have any sleeves in this block? Either way if you have to pull it back down i would definatly pressuse test the blk.

JMO

Zip.

You keep dumping this much fuel in the motor and you will end up washing a cylinder out. The fuel ends up in the pan traveling with the oil. This is why your oil is milked so bad.

That's what I am afraid of, washing out a cylinder or diluting the oil so badly I wind up with bearing damage.
I have to locate and solve the problem before anymore runs on alcohol.

I never noticed that zipper. I will check with the builder and see what the piston to wall clearance was.
I don't have any sleeves in the block. It was a new Dart Big M block about 20 passes, and two rebuilds ago.

I don't know what other builders, run but i limit the clearance to .0065/.007 on alcohol or nitrous, on gas i come down to .0055/.006, with forged pistons. The other question comes to mind is the piston. The build sheet says SRT 14.5 to 1. Did he mean SHP pistons? if so the expansion rate on the SHP and a true forged piston. If so the SRP piston is a high silicon piston and the expansion is less than a 2618 forged piston. I personally will not run a SHP pistion, although that's what a lot of builders use because they are about $150.00 cheaper and they are not a good alcohol piston (in my opinion). I've seen more of them burn down on alcohol than any other high compression piston. JE sells more SHP pistons than any other piston they sell. The other thing is that he says on the end gap on the top ring is .035 and the second ring he says .032, but then he writes gapless, i have never file fit a gapless ring, but maybe i'm missing something. I'm not critising the engine builder, just looking for the problem same as you are

Zip.

I noticed the samething on the gapless rings

Thanks guys for all the input. I have a lot of good questions to ask the engine builder when I take the car to him tomorrow to do a leak down test. I will update you on Saturday after the test. Thanks again guys!

My goal is to get the problem worked out this year, as our racing season is over in a few more weeks and I don't want to start next season fighting problems again.

One of the reasons i questioned the SRP pistons is about 2 or 3 yrs. ago we had a person who was posting here that worked for JE pistons and i told him i wouldn't put a SRP in my lawn mower. At the time i was a little upset about melting down the top of a piston for about 1/4" to the first ring on my 1471 blown 358 sm/blk chevy, causing masive damage blowing oil out filling up the catch can and even oiling the right side slick and spinning 4 rod bearing and 2 main bearing and scrapping the crank. He responded with we won't sell SRP pistonn for lawn mowers, and that the SRP piston is only good for 100 HP per hole, anything over that you're flirting with danger.
I'm sure the thread is gone by now, but maybe some remember.

Zip.