Re: Parts
 

Thanks bbchevy. I have everything I need, I just need to start with the correct settings.

i was told of a good way to stop milky oil and help get temp up :wink:


an old timer told use to run a vac vent line from the manifold in side the car with a valve on it .... this way when you open it.... it sucks air to lean it out and will get the temp up as well. he also said to get the temp up to 200 deg. before shutting the car down :)

The engine is apart.
Thankfully, no big damage. The ring gap was a bit big on some cylinders. Gonna replace the bearings, because they were a little washed from the excess alcohol, and install some gapless rings.

Thanks for the info fast.
I have a lean out valve on the car and I used it when the engine had a carb on it. With the injection, I just pull out the fuel shut of until the engine is lean.

Look into rings from Wiseco or JE, low tension, there is hp in that area.


Did they say what the ring gap was ?

The end gap was 28 top ring and 26 second ring.
I'm gonna go to gapless top rings. Changing to a Sniper manifold at the same time. It will be a couple of weeks yet.

with injection the intake is a waste but if you every do a carb again there is a gain there.

David,
Which intake manifold are you running with your injection system?

I have the Sniper on it for carb purposes and a 454R sitting here for it also.

I saw some impressive claims of HP gains with the Sniper and assumed they were using a carb for the testing. I wondered if it did the same with injection. Now I know. Thanks, David.

They are a great intake with a carb and a good choice for anything but with injection there isnt any gains over any other decent brand intake.

Let us know how everything turns out when they redyno it.

Ok. The engine is done and I put the Sniper manifold on it. I took it to the dyno (Super-flo 902) on Friday and made 23 pulls on it. Made 3 pulls with a 1150 Holley Dominator carb on C16 first to seat the rings. Then I installed the Ron's terminator and switched to alcohol.

On alcohol, the engine would nose over on the horsepower curve at about 6000 to 6300 RPM.

The final configurations that worked, and didn't nose, although the horsepower curves did flatten out, over were:

39 nozzles - 82 pill - 31 degrees advanced timing
922 HP at 6400 RPM
829 ft# torque at 5200 RPM

41 nozzles - 88 pill - 33 degrees advanced timing
925 HP at 6400 RPM
833 ft# torque at 5200 RPM

Fuel pressure was 68 - 70 psi. I was using a 1/2 Enderle belt drive pump. I had it tested and it fowed at 5.5 GPM.

I did try one hit with the high speed bypass installed and set to 63 psi, but it didn't seem to help stop the nosing over.

The maximum RPM the engine would reach was 6500. I can't figure out why. Dirty air in the dyno room? The exhaust evac system was not sealed that well. The headers were dumping into 6" flex hoses which were exhausted, by a fan, to the outside of the building.

The vacuum pump could not keep up with the crankcase pressure. As the RPM came up, the crankcase would go from 12" of vacuum to 22 psi of pressure. I blew a hole in both the intake and pan gaskets (The Right Stuff). The richer the engine was, the higher the crankcase pressure. I am going to change the drive pump pulley to spin the vacuum pump at 75% instead of 50% of the crank. I hope this helps the crankcase pressure problem.

Another oddity is that with the 1150 carb on race gas, the air flow was 1148 cfm at 6500 RPM. With the 2100 cfm Terminator on alcohol, the airflow was only 1074 cfm at 6500 RPM.

I drained the oil after the dyno run and it wasn't very milky at all.

An input would be appreciated.

The airflow drop on methanol is caused by the volume of fuel in the runner and is normal.

Did you get any air/fuel ratio data or exhaust temps?

Do you have a pill in the high speed? What size?

I'll weigh in at the risk of being critised. You haven't stated (that i have read) what size headers you have, IMO you have to have atleast 2 1/4" to 2 3/8" headers on an engine that size and 4" to 4.5" collector. That would cause the 6500 RPM limit also the evac system on the dyno could effect the vacuum reading at 6500. Ofcouse the dyno does not show what is the real effects at the track. There's 3 or 4 things that could cause it to not run above 6500 RPM. "1" valve springs with the size valves you are running needs to have well over 250lbs. I run 300LBS on 2.140 Titatium on a 434" motor, and i'm sure your's are 2.250 or bigger. I don't know what size cam you have but anything over .750 it should run 7500 RPM's with ease. What concerns me most is that the carb flowed more intake cfm than the Injection. That to me tells me that the exhaust couldn't get out. INO if it can't get out (headers) it can't flow IE: equals high oil pan pressure. A vacuum pump should run 18 to 20 inches of vacuum, anything more that that will dry up the cylinder walls and cause schuffing of the cylinder walls. At no time should it turn to pressure in the oil pan. Again the dyno evac system is not the same as a real run down the track.

These are just my opinion based on previous experience and by no means should it be taken as the cure to your problems.



Zip.

No air/fuel ratio data.
The exhaust temp was about 1150 - 1200 on the good passes.

I had a 70 pill in the high speed by-pass and set it to full release at 65 psi. The problem was it starts opening at about 40 psi.

You won't get any criticism from me zipper. I appreciate all the info anyone gives me.

I run 2 1/4" to 2 3/8" stepped Dynatech down-swept headers with 4" collectors. Dart Pro2 CNC heads with 2.33 intake and 1.88 exhaust valves. The spring pressures are 300 pounds on seat and 850 pounds open. It has a Comp Cams custom grind cam with intake lift of 0.846 and exhaust lift of 0.826.

Did the engine go past 6500 with the carb on it?

Use cracking pressure as the base for your high speed.

X2--Use cracking pressure as the base for your high speed.

The exhaust temp. sounds pretty close

After looking at this with a clear head. Get rid of the pressure in the oil pan and the RPM's will come. It's like dynamics, EX: lock your fingers together and pull with either arm, resisting with the other. The stronger arm will win. Same thing with you engine, the top side wins but not without resistence. I don't know the vacuum system you have but if it started out with 12 inches vacuum and ended up at 20/25 lbs. pressure in the pan before it blew the intake gasket, there are some serious issues with the collection system, being plugged or a breather problem plugging up or filling up. i sure with you would have tried header evac system on the dyno. I also think you have another 50 HP once you get rid of pressure in the oil pan, and as many RPM's as you want to run.

JMO.



Zip.

I used to run a header evac system and I just put the vacuum pump on the engine this year. Shouldn't the vacuum pump draw more air out of the crankcase than the evac system?
When I get to the track, I will disconnect the vac pump and hook the evac back up and see what happens.
Thanks for the input zipper.

The three pulls I made with the carb and gas were not full hits. Just went to 6000 RPM.

Just out of curiousity, did you run the valves to check that they were set properly?

After running the three passes on gas, with the carb, the valve lash was adjusted hot.
0.024 on both the intake and exhaust, as per the cam card from Comp.

Whats the cam specs besides lift ? and where did the actually install it at ?


For it to have that much crank case pressure you'd have to have slim to no vacuum. They are is major issues there, and a good amount of power there also.

If I could figure out how to insert a pdf file in my post, I could post the blueprinting specs and dyno runs.

photobucket.com

Here goes:

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...int_Sheet1.jpg

Another interesting fact is that, on the first three dyno pulls on race gas, the crankcase btween 8 and 10 inches of vacuum.
It was only when I switched to alcohol that I started to build crankcase pressure. At times, as much as 29 psi.

Says its not there, did u delete it ?

I assume you havent raced it yet ?

Sorry. I messed up and deleted it.
First runs on the new engine tomorrow.
Here it is again:

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...int_Sheet1.jpg

Here is a link to the dyno pulls:
The manifold pressure is actually the crankcase pressure.
The file name indicates the run number. The forst three runs were on gas, the remainder on alcohol.

http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/b...Dyno%20Sheets/

Boost # I assume is the vacuum ?

Why only to 6500rpms on dyno? Notice it falls off on a few them up high.

Did it blue the headers before or after the dyno ?

I will double check on the Boost # but I assumed it was manifold pressure.

6500 RPM was the best it would do on the dyno pulls.

The headers were blue before the dyno runs. There didn't seem to be any change in color during the dyno session.

Heading to the track today. Wondering whether to shift on time or RPM??

I can clearly see it didnt care for more fuel on injection up high, that engine should have no issue at 7400. Something else is holding it back on the dyno, possibly on the track. I will be waiting for the on track #'s, either that dyno is on the low side or it has something wrong somewhere.

Do you shift on time or RPM, David?

Always on time, feel its a bit more consistent that way

If you know the time # to start at its great, if not start with rpm until you know the time #. I've seen some be at 1.65 and some be at 2.65, converter, engine, shifters are all different.

Thanks David.
I was runing it at 2 seconds with the old motor and it was working fine. I will start from there and experiment a bit today.

Mine is 1.75 @ 7100 and 1.95 at 7300, good luck looking foward to seeing the results.

Well what did it do ?

To continue my saga:

First pass:
8.19 @ 161 mph - Max RPM: 6600

Nozzles: 41
Main pill: 90

Car ran well but sprayed oil out of the vacuum pump breather again. Estimate about a quart sprayed.

Disconnected vacuum pump and hooked up header evac system.
Changed oil. No milking of oil - no methanol in oil. Drained Vacuum breather tank. It was full.

Pass 2:
8.12 @ 163 mph - Max RPM: 6900

Nozzles: 41
Main pill: 90

Car ran better. Oil film inside of header collectors after run.
Changed main pill to 88.

Pass 3:
8.02 @ 165 mph - Max RPM: 7050
Nozzles: 41
Main pill: 88

Car ran even better. Very slight oil film inside of header collectors after run. Temp after run: 220.

Traction was a problem with 60 foot times around 1.19.

I think I may have the answer for the oil spray. Due to space restrictions, I had to mount the vacuum pump breather can above the engine and directly in the airflow. Could it be that the air rushing through the breather filter is creating a vacuum and pulling the oil out?
Should I build a shroud to put in front of the breather filter? Would that help?
On the dyno, very little oil was puked out of the exhaust hose from the vacuum pump. Maybe 2 tablespoons in 23 hits.
I kept the engine leaned out until I was ready to roll into the burnout box, then went full rich until the return road.

One footnote:
I pulled the chute for the first time. Everything worked great and I saved a lot of brakes. I will be pulling it regularly from now on.

We run the head mount on a few cars for the vaccum canister so I do not think that is a issue, but worth a try. You need a in car vacuum gauge to see whats its doing down track. I havent drained my vacuum canister in over a month and 75 runs.

There is no reason for you to run a 41 nozzel IMO, dynos always like more fuel, drop that to a 40 and I'd be shocked if it didnt run faster again.
I am same CI with more power and have no where near that much fuel, mine would be a slug with that much fuel.

Did I read right your water temp was 220 degrees after a run ?

Your gaining ground but from the dyno #'s I seen I thought it'd be a 7.70s player.